Home » Government » ‘Citizens Opposed’ meet with State Leaders on Prison
"...In twenty five years, the DOC has never put in a prison where a community objected." Director Charles Ryan, Az Department of Corrections.

‘Citizens Opposed’ meet with State Leaders on Prison

By: Linda Gross

According to Senator Russell Pearce,who will take the reins as the new president of the Arizona Senate, and Director of Arizona State Corrections, Charles Ryan, “they (DOC) have never located a prison in a community which did not want them there.”

This statement was in response to a question asked yesterday during a meeting at the Capital with Globe Councilman Terry Wheeler and members of the Globe Citizens Opposed, where it was noted that Globe’s Mayor, Fernando Shipley has gone on record as saying, “This is on their land (State land) and I don’t know if we could stop one (a prison) even if we wanted to.”

This concept of “not being able to stop it even if we wanted to” has since been echoed by Vice Mayor Thea Wilshire and others in an apparent attempt to lead the public to believe it is out of their hands.

According to the DOC and the State’s highest ranking Senator, that is not the case.

Pearce, who believes strongly in one-man, one-vote and having elected officials represent their constituents, looked puzzled and said he didn’t know where the Mayor might be getting that idea.” No,” he said, “there were many communities who did want a prison…and that he, nor the Department of Corrections had any interest in siting a prison in a community where the citizens did not want it.”

In fact, Director Ryan added, “…In twenty five years, the DOC has never put in a prison where a community objected.”

The meeting on Tuesday at the Capitol, included District 5 Senator, Sylvia Allen who had driven in from Heber to be at the meeting, Senator Pearce, Director Charles Ryan, Jennifer Bowser and Dona Marie Markley with the DOC and five members of the Citizens Opposed: Jim and Kelly Moss, Charlie Anderson, Linda Gross, and Sarah Bernstein.

Wheeler, who had arranged for the meeting, led off with his concerns about Globe’s infrastructure and the ability to even meet the demands of a prison’s infrastructure needs. He noted that in the water settlement with the San Carlos Tribe , the City of Globe was allotted 2500 acre feet per year. The City is currently using 1600 acre feet, leaving 900 acre feet for development.  The 1000 bed prison complex is expected to use just over 200 acre feet per year.

“But our straw is located on the outermost edge of the aquifer, Wheeler explained. And we don’t know if it will always beable to access the water that’s in the aquifer.”

When asked about whether recharge rates of the aquifer itself have remained constant, Wheeler says the San Carlos Tribe, who owns the land which the aquifer sits on, has not permitted the City to sink test sites on reservation land to determine whether the aquifer is recharging at the same rate it was when the agreement was made in 2004.

The issue of water could trump any other objection to siting such a large prison complex in Globe, and Wheeler made it clear that this issue had not been sufficiently addressed at the local level to even ensure a prison developer of sufficient infrastructure. Something Ryan alluded to earlier in his remarks when he noted the absolute importance of sufficient infrastructure such as water and sewer to handle the needs of a prison.

“We are heartened to hear your position on this,” said Jim Moss, who spoke of the local groundswell of opposition to the idea of another prison in Globe. He provided proof to those assembled by pulling out the file of 2500+ petition signatures and hundreds of postcards from registered voters which the group has collected in the last five months.

Moss went on to acknowledge that “…there may be communities who want a prison of the kind proposed, “…but we do not want one in Globe,”  he said. “We already have a prison.”

Dona Marie Marley, Planning & Special Projects Administrator, has said the RFP for the State’s 5000 additional beds is currently being re-written with new stringent security guidelines in response to the Kingman incident and will be discussed in executive session Mid-December. It is expected to come out of committee and be released to bidders by the end of December and bidders will have 2 months to compile their bids and submit them back to the DOC.  At this point the DOC will hold public hearings in the communities which are vying for the prison beds.

The debate between the citizens of Globe and some of it’s elected officials over this issue is not over. But citizen voices just got a leg up in the debate from Senators Sylvia Allen and Russell Pearce and DOC Director Charles Ryan who seem quite prepared to listen closely to the will of the people on this issue.

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About Linda Gross

Writer, photographer. Passionate foodie, lover of good books and storytelling. Lives in Globe. Plays in the historic district. Travels when possible.

25 comments

  1. What a refreshing meeting at the State Capitol yesterday!

    It was refreshing to speak with elected officials who understand the democratic principles of representation and respecting the voices of their constituents.

    This private prison issue here in Globe should have been resolved shortly after Sept. 13, when citizens opposed presented a compelling case to Globe City Council. At that time, 1000+ citizens had signed a petition asking Council to pass a Resolution opposing any prison project for our community. Instead, the half dozen or so local officials advocating a private prison dug in stubbornly, ignored citizen opposition, and attempted to confuse the public. This sort of response from local ‘leaders’ is quite inexplicable.

    I have always believed that substantial ‘people power’ could stop any prison project. What was refreshing about yesterday’s meeting at the State Capitol, was hearing the emphatic statements from State officials that validated my belief. The AZDOC, nor State Senators, have any interest whatsoever in siting a prison in a community where there is substantial opposition.

    If there was ever a community that has demonstrated substantial opposition — it is Globe.

  2. Globe does not need these kind of jobs. The average salary of $43,500 is OK but we do not need people working. Will the state take our other prison away? Send it to Show Low or Superior they need the work we don’t. Good job Terry.

  3. Think about this for a second. The local jail pays guards $29,000. The State Prison starts them out at $31,000. The Private Prisons who SAY they save the State money by spending less money to incarcerate prisoners necessarily pay LESS than State-run prisons. I suspect you are getting your $43,000 from the private prison operators themselves? That would be called a sales-pitch. The facts simply do not bear out. Guards at these facilities make LESS MONEY and have little or no training.

    And while we’re on the subject…companies from Freeport McMoran to Walmart have a terrible time filling job positions! Not because of a lack of applicants. But because no one can pass a drug test. And we think we’re going to staff a prison with 1000 inmates and $13/hour guards which will come from a job pool which has baffled Walmart? And this is a good plan?

    Yeah, greeaaat plan!

  4. Forty-three grand a year is a fantasy – it looks good on paper, but makes no
    sense when one looks at the bottom line of the Private Prison Promoters,
    which is filling THEIR pockets and their SHAREHOLDERS pockets with filthy lucre.

    Glad to hear that Allen, Pearce & Ryan are hearing the will of the people,
    because it seems the Globe City Council still isn’t listening… even though
    we’ve been speaking LOUD & CLEAR since April.

  5. Out of the 350 postcards sent out how many responses have actually come back? I have talked with approximately 40 people who are local citizens and they don’t have any objections to the private prison coming in.

  6. Perhaps we need a group that is for the prison coming into town so we can have some fair and unbiased reporting and facts gathered. Anyone want to join that committee?

  7. Hello DCOX.

    Your information above is incorrect.

    Actually, over 350 post cards from registered voters have already been returned. Just ask Councilwoman Uhl. She had the opportunity to read over a hundred comments, from the post cards returned from voters in her District. And, thus far, we have mailed post cards to less than 1/3 of Globe’s registered voters! By the time we are finished, we estimate that we will have over 1,200 signed post cards from registered voters in Globe — exactly the same number that voted for Mayor in the last election. We have just begun!
    Additionally, we have gathered over 2,000 petition signatures. And, here’s a startling number — guess how many post cards were mailed back that had a PRO-Prison comment? ONE, yes — precisely ONE. We will be happy to share with you, just as we did with Mr. Charles Ryan, Director of AZDOC and Senators Allen & Pearce.

    No doubt you have spoken with 40 people who do not oppose a private prison coming to Globe. So have we. Approx. 20 of those are local officials, EDC Members etc!

    However, the important point is that a substantial portion of our community (such as @ 25 merchants on Broad St.) are opposed to a prison project. It is past time for elected leaders to LISTEN to their constituents, and it is time for the EDC to focus on bringing true private enterprise projects that will contribute to the quality of life of our community.

    Oh, and finally — please prepare a list of specific concerns, challenges etc. to any of the information we have published or distributed over the past 5 months. We stand by our facts. But, we are also willing to make any correction to the record if it is warranted. Please, show us your specific concerns. Thank you.

  8. I appreciate the comment back. I have talked to over 40 people in town who were not related in any way to the EDC or to local officials, although I’m sure you have talked to many more than I have. I did take the time to read your notebook that you passed out previously and frankly that is what encouraged me to talk to the folks that I have. Albeit, I greatly appreciate the hard work you guys have put into this, I do disagree with the information you passed out to the general public by way of that notebook. I personally felt that it was a scare tactic designed to get the exact response you were hoping for. I also did share that notebook with at least 4 other business owners in town, who did have the same reaction I did. The original notebook did not give any kind of unbiased information to our community. Most of the articles weren’t even about prison systems in Arizona. I have heard a number of rumors in town as well. I had another business owner in town say that they saw children signing your petition at the fairgrounds. I told this person that I found that extremely difficult to believe, since I do believe that you and others like you are truly trying to do what you think is best for our community. I strongly believe that this whole thing needs additional research and have taken it upon myself to do just that. I will be happy to pass along my findings as information comes in. Again thank you for your dedication to your project and I do admire you for the work that has been done, I just don’t believe that all of the correct information is coming out. I will look forward to speaking with you and blogging (first time blogger) with regard to the information I am currently waiting on, in addition to the conversations I plan to have with local law enforcement, as well as the areas in our State that currently have private run prisons.

  9. Jim…Linda was kind enough to pass on the invitation for reviewing the cards, etc. I would definately like to take you up on that; however, I would first like to get the information back that I have already requested from various sources so that we can have a conversation with the info that I am attempting to obtain. Thanks again, and I look forward to an informative evening.

  10. It is startling to think that a child is lurking somewhere in Globe who may have (according to rumors) signed a ‘Stop the Private Prison’ petition at the County Fair! We must find that blessed child and bestow honors!

    During the past 5 months, a handful of pro-private prison folks have criticized the now famous ‘Notebook’. Yet, not one critic has stepped forward to provide objective research or reporting that rebuts any of the information we assembled. Good luck.
    The purpose of the Notebook was to assemble factual information and informed opinion that exposed the for-profit prison industry for what it truly is. The truth about this industry, that has emerged over the past several decades, reaches far beyond Arizona.
    Additional research is always a good thing — just google: “for profit prisons” — follow hundreds of links from an endless variety of sources — spend a hundred hours or so (as I have done) engaged in research —- NOT industry propaganda or private prison talking points.

    Frankly — I am not too interested in ‘re-litigating’ the entire debate that has been happening here in Globe during the past 5-6 months. No offense, but you are a bit late to this party.

    By the way, I understated the total number of ‘post card petitions’ from registered voters —- the number is actually 500, and growing daily. We invite you to stop by for just a brief visit to see these post cards and read the hundreds of citizen comments — powerful stuff! No reason to wait! Come on over, and bring a City Council Member!

    Finally, again I emphasize the important point — a substantial portion of our community is opposed to a prison project — for all kinds of reasons. Given this reality, it is time to redirect energy toward attracting positive, true free-enterprise projects.

  11. Isn’t soliciting signatures from minors unlawful? At the very least, most states mandate that only registered voters can sign petitions that effect government issues. Also, would it be possible to have a list of citations for the information in your notebook? Since you stand by your facts I’d be curious to know of their origins.

  12. AZGIRL,
    Your information is quite incomplete. You have jumped to conclusions, and are enabling the spreading of rumors.

    The writer above, DCox, acknowledges ‘hearing rumors’ —- then proceeds to spread them! Rumors they are!

    The ‘petitions’ at the County Fair are NOT ‘legal’ documents, in the same since as a ‘referendum’ or ‘recall’ petition that must carefully conform to a legal statute. The ‘petitions’ local residents signed at the County Fair and other places around town, were INFORMAL documents that expressed a specific sentiment about a proposed prison project. The PURPOSE of the petitions is to demonstrate the extent of citizen opposition. To my knowledge, no ‘child’ signed a petition at the County Fair! However, we did distribute hundreds of ‘NO PRISON’ stickers to anyone, young or old, who wanted one! To spread such rumors is, well……. silly to say the least.

    Regarding information in the Notebook…… solid as a rock! Call me and I will present you with a ‘Notebook’ — and will be happy to discuss every single source (most of which are contained in the Notebook) —- and would love to show you all of the original petition signatures —- and most importantly, the ORIGINAL ‘post cards’ from registered voters that contain hundreds of powerful comments! Just call Jim at the Pickle Barrel Trading Post 425-9282.

    Have you googled: “for profit prisons” yet? Have you engaged in just a few hours of independent research? If you do, I am confident your questions about our ‘Notebook’ will be answered —- and then, perhaps you will want to join the @ 2,500 (and growing) local residents who have signed a petition opposing a private prison for Globe-MIami.

  13. Jim:
    What rumors? I asked a couple of questions to the person who seems to have the most information on the situation. I have seen the notebook and am not curious about that level of information. I’d like to see the links and citations to the original material you’ve used so I can make an informed decision as a voter. I’m concerned that asking to see your work means I’ve jumped to conclusions and warrants your defensive posture.

  14. In these posts, I do not see anything but people asking questions – and who are met tersely that the time for such discussion has passed or that they are spreading untrue rumors. How does asking questions do anything other than clarify the situation? To echo the concerns being voiced, the mere possibility that children might have been included is something that should be considered socially coercive and warrants concern in my mind, not celebration. As a resident, I don’t believe this conversation is over. That does not mean that I support the proposal, but that with the exception of an unfortunately short article regarding the very real, significant and practical issues facing the area in regards to local water availability and sewage infrastructure, it remains that many of the arguments that I have seen made are more in the nature of “A Raisin in the Sun” protests or presumptions of the worst possible scenario. This, instead of maintaining a balanced and reasonable presentation of the entire situation. It seems that instead of building community awareness and cohesion, there appears to be more caustic comments coming from the no-prison camp aimed towards our local government, leaders and individuals within our community than I have seen from them and others among us who acknowledge the possibility of a prison happening – even if it is not the desired outcome. As I stated earlier, I am not in support of the prison project, but as long as there are still questions and possibilities remain there is still discussion to be had on the matter.

    Having seen the original notebook, I looked for citations for the origins of the mass of photocopied pages that filled the binder and was unable to find many if any at all. I was also unable to find any indication of the copyright holder’s permission to reprint such documents. Further, the poster asked for their answer here, and I don’t think it is out of line to ask for you to do so, especially in this light. And while the Internet is a wonderful potential resource, it is also full of editorial and should not be treated as fact. So I will second the earlier request, and ask that you list your sources here for the material included so that myself and others, as individuals, can read the material in its’ original and complete context instead of in a condensed and partially annotated format. And I would prefer to do that in the comfort of my own home where I can compare studies at my leisure, not a commercial setting as you suggest by visiting this store, having one side present their arguments to me in the absence of any counterpoint. Is that unreasonable to request? And before you ask yet again, I’ve done a fair amount of reading (including perusing your notebook), reviewed the potential issues that can easily occur in private prisons (as well as state-run facilities), and I don’t think that a prison is the right type of ‘industry’ for this area to pursue. But that has nothing to do with the people associated, the families and employees that would come with the project as has been suggested elsewhere, but the damage that such a project would do to the ability of Globe to sustain itself well into the future.

    If asking questions is equal to spreading rumors, then we are already in worse shape than I feared. There is room for questions and analysis while the subject continues to be an active one, and those voices should be encouraged, not stifled; it is disheartening to see a relatively negative response to someone who asked valid questions. First, regarding the nature of your “petitions” and the lack of disclosure or process. It is in quotations, since these documents would be invalid in the legal sense, given there is no oversight regarding them. One could as easily get as many signatures at a college with a title sheet for lower tuition; there is no way to know how many of your individuals were relevant to the discussion as registered voters in Globe. Second, about the substance and origins of the materials being presented on your behalf as those have not been provided readily in print or online. It further concerns me that there is no disclosure of this fact in the statements made earlier regarding the situation at hand.

    One last point I would make is in regards those members of the Arizona State Senate featured in the original article. Senator Sylvia Allen seemingly believes that the Earth is 6000 years old (https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/06/arizona-is-6000-years-old/), while there is historical evidence of no less than three thriving civilizations on three different continents developing, horses were being domesticated, and the plough was already in use at that time. Senator Russell Pearce was discharged from his position as the Director of the Arizona MVD due to tampering with state records and has been associated with various white supremacists and hate groups over just the past five years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Pearce). While I would not base any judgment upon these select pieces of information only, I think it is equally important that any readers be aware of any questionable backgrounds of those whose help is being sought at the state level.

    Please respond with your arguments, as I am interested in seeing how those selections are presented in their original context, and the knowledge base from which the authors of those articles drew upon.

  15. Dear Observer: As editor and Globe resident, I am responsible for the information listed on this site. Although I am wholly opposed to the Private Prison proposed for Globe having done my own research, we have posted both sides of the issue in many cases, including the 4-week debate showcasing both sides, with Bob Zache representing the EDC’s response in supporting a prison. As information surfaces regarding the track record of Arizona’s Private Prison system, we have listed them here. It seems they would be relevant to residents considering whether to allow one to build here.
    There has been alot of information disseminated in 6 months. What is it, exactly that you feel needs clarification? Happy to provide resources or citations, although I think most posts have referenced these.

    Your point about sources is important. A majority of information cited by those who support this project have come from the Prison company themselves. That hardly seems like independent research. Much of our information comes from watch dog groups and independent reporting from Channel 5 KPHO, or the Rachael Maddow show, or news reports from other states who have reported issues with these kinds of facilities.

    Regarding the “children” issue, I’ve heard this comment twice now, and all I can think is that it stems from a photo I posted about the Citizen’s Opposed booth at the Gila County Fair. Considering hundreds of local residents stopped by the booth, chatted, signed their name to the petition and grabbed stickers…it’s not so surprising that stickers showed up on young and old, and everyone in between!

    No matter what you or I think about Russell Pearce and Sylvia Allen, they are our State Leaders, and as such, influential in either siting a Prison in Globe – or directing it elsewhere. Pearce is a proponent of private prisons and if you believe the NPR report, he helped to draft Arizona’s legislation for SB70. Fact is, he will be influential on this issue of Private Prisons in the State. And part of the democratic process is you work through channels. Going to the legislators and having our opposition heard at that level was good ole American Democracy at work.

  16. And this bit of news just in on Russell Pearce by the Phoenix New Times. Good reporting, as always.

    https://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/12/russell_pearce_shakes_down_sco.php

  17. I’ve been waiting on responding here, as I have been waiting for a response from Mr. Moss and trying to provide him with a reasonable amount of time in which to do so. Indeed, Ms. Gross, as publisher and editor you are responsible for the information published on your site; here I have only asked Mr. Moss to provide his sources for the publication he supplied, as well as the relevant permission to reproduce those works. That is all, as I was unable to obtain a list of citations for that information when I reviewed the “Notebook” myself. As I’ve said, I do not support the prison project in any way so I am not sure where your comments regarding information supporting the project were aimed. For information regarding that argument, I would contact the relevant companies and those individuals who are supportive of such a project, just as in these efforts to understand aspects of the no-prison argument I am reaching out for information from those who are its’ leading proponents’. I would be hesitant to say that your sources are not equally vested in their own position. I still have questions regarding the purpose of the petition, as without safeguards in place there is no way to ascertain that any of those signatures were from individuals with legitimate interests or more representative of the political nature of those who were present when the opportunity to sign presented itself. It is one thing to claim that you have the signatures of 2,500 registered voters in Globe or Gila County and another entirely to say that you’ve collected 2,500 signatures in opposition to the prison project, which is what would be more accurate based on what I have seen here and heard in regards to the rather open manner that signatures were accepted. If there is evidence to the contrary, then I welcome the opportunity to review it – but I don’t believe that I should be coerced in order to have access to that information, or the resources used in producing the argument made against a for-profit prison. One last observation: while Mr. Lowery and Mr. Moss appear in large font on the right side your website, Mr. Zache’s name is absent; so is any reference to the EDC or SGCEDC, leaving the combined absence of reference material contained herein remarkably conspicuous. When I searched for him, I found his articles taken out of context and addressed in a selective manner; I do not consider this to be posting both sides of the issue in a fair manner, but positing an editorial response to his articles that were written in another paper. If Mr. Zache had been an active participant in the discussion, it would be a different story, but at no time does his name appear other than in small citations within the article itself. As a result, it does not seem that a balanced discussion has taken place but that a platform established to share a specific opinion on the situation. Even in agreement with not having the prison here in principle, I still have issue in that the manner in which the conversation has happened seems more like a loaded gun instead of handled in an even fashion, and as a result those who might have had an objection or observation are instead discouraged from even making the attempt for fear of reprisal.

    Regarding Pearce and Allen, it may be a matter that between us, I do not agree that the ends justify the means, especially in this case. More to point, to hitch one’s wagon to the same horses that enacted some of the most questionable legislation in Arizona’s history (and that’s saying something) in SB70 is not something I’m comfortable with. That is another discussion, though, as we get into the roles of the state versus the role of the federal government. The article you cited is a prime example of political malfeasance, regardless of whether it has been considered acceptable procedure or behavior in the past. If the argument is sound, as the water and sewage argument appeared to have been with concrete figures, projections based on a variety of different usage models, and an unbiased viewpoint, then I have no problem with it. While I’ve seen some information regarding the effects of property values and crime rates (in aggregate) and would welcome more in depth and complete information, I have not been impressed by comments made by no-prison proponents that suggest that people associated with for-profit prisons are inherently inferior instead of sticking to the relevant data. Something that has gone unsaid here is that this issue is being given a NIMBY approach; rather than address the laws and individuals responsible for creating the need for another prison, the problem is simply being pushed from Globe to another community. That doesn’t sound like responsible behavior to me, and it concerns me that it is acceptable with some people to pass this off to another location.

    To simply things, why not provide a bibliography as well as a list of other sources utilized? That way, a private individual such as myself is able to make an well-reasoned decision for ourselves. While we are not in disagreement on the issue, I am concerned in how it was handled and where some of the information came from as it appeared more intent on filling the reader with fear than with information.

  18. Step from behind the curtain into the sunlight and I will be happy to respond in great detail.
    No identity = No accountability. I for one, am not interested in that sort of dialogue.

    Your comments (‘An Observer’) are ‘way off base’ from start to finish.

    In the meantime, just google: “for profit prisons” or “prison industrial complex” and do your independent research.

    Each & every local official & citizen is welcome to evaluate/examine ALL Petition signatures and Post Cards — as Mayor Shipley (to his credit) did last week. We have nothing to hide. Just call 425-9282 to set an appointment.

  19. This is a public forum, Mr. Moss – and as such, whether it is my own name or a pseudonym is not relevant, since it is the content of the discussion that is significant and not the individuals who are making them that are important. From what I’ve read thus far, you do not appear interested in any sort of dialogue as your comments have consistently dismissed the opinions of others without substantiation while also refusing to answer the questions being put to you. What were your sources, and was authorization given by the authors? Given your background in education, I am surprised that you do not recognize the importance of and necessity for a bibliography and getting permission to reproduce material written by others before distributing it. If my comments are off-base then why have you said nothing in response other than to keep repeating to search Google? As I’ve said previously, I have done my own research but I’m always interested in getting as complete a picture as possible before making up my mind on a subject. Is there an issue in asking you to provide your sources? And given that it appears that there has not been oversight in regards to this ‘petition’ that has been circulated, is it appropriately disclaimed on the document itself to make that clear to both those reading it and to those signing it, whether they be private citizens or public officials? While I appreciate the effort made in asking me to come to your place of business, I don’t have any interest in doing so. At the risk of repeating myself, I am asking you to simply substantiate yourself in public by requesting your sources so that I can independently research them myself. If I am off-base, then I invite you to publicly answer and explain why. If you have nothing to hide, why have you continued to refuse and evade such simple and direct requests?

    To this point, the best argument made against placing a for-profit prison here would be the same reason to argue not to put another State facility or other commercial undertaking of the same scope: doing so would put such an undue demand on the local infrastructure (water and sewage) that it would ultimately destroy Globe’s ability to continue to grow and evolve over time. If the numbers provided were accurate, and to this point they have been consistent with what I’ve found elsewhere, then there is no reason for the discussion to continue as to keep on that path would ultimately be self-destructive.

  20. Oh please, step into the sunlight! Identify yourself (An Observer) — then, I will be most delighted to address ALL of your ‘observations’. As long as your identity is anonymous, your words really can not be taken seriously. You obviously have something to hide. No transparency = No credibility.

    Until then….. google: “Israeli Supreme Court bans for-profit prisons” — to learn what the Supreme Court of Israel, a capitalistic democracy, thinks about for-profit prisons. And, check with the EDC to see the latest social science research (which we provided) out of Washington State University —– “The Impact of Prisons on Employment Growth In Rural U.S. Counties” —- the BIBLIOGRAPHY is ten (10) pages! ! —- All documented and sourced — just like ALL of the other information we have disseminated!

  21. To ‘An Observer’… are you plant, vegetable or mineral?

    It’s difficult to take anyone seriously when they can’t even put their name to what they say and how they feel…
    it’s a simple part of engaging in an open and honest dialog. I put my name (and my picture) on everything I stand for…
    maybe there’s some risk involved, but how else will I stand up and be heard and understood?

    Join the club, Kiddo, and come forward!

  22. Wow, all I did was ask for some citations so I could do some further reading. I had no idea I was asking for so much and that it would cause such rancor and push back. I will say this, while I still haven’t gotten the citations I requested regarding the information being handed out so I can make an informed voting decision, I have certainly gotten a clear picture of how Citizens Opposed truly regards the citizenry and their concerns. As I don’t think Jim is ever going to tell us where he got the information he’s used to create this grassroots movement, (other than a vague, “the internet” answer), I won’t be returning to this thread.

  23. One last thing, as to demanding for people to give their names online, this is an identity theft security risk. Continually badgering people to give away identifying information online is called Phishing. And it’s illegal.

  24. Poppycock, AZGIRL! — Whomever you are!

    Your argumentative points simply have no basis in fact — whatsoever.
    All information we have disseminated has been sourced, referenced, most of which contains bibliographical citations — just like the 2010 social science research referenced above in my last posting. Your accusations are ludicrous.

    Regarding anonymity — if both parties to a conversation are anonymous — fine. BUT, for one party to remain behind a veil and hurl false accusations at the other party who is standing out in the open — well, is that really a level playing field? Sure, it is my choice to be transparent — identity known — AND, it is my choice to refuse to interact online with those who act like the Wizard of OZ (as in behind the curtain).

    Adios. I’m going “Phishing” — you know, I’m getting ready to identify myself by clicking the ‘SUBMIT’ button.

  25. In reply to Mr. Moss’ and Mr. Lowery’s comments above – Thanks, but no thanks. My personal privacy is important to me, and something that I will continue to protect. That you are interested in being the figurehead(s) behind a movement you believe in is perhaps to your own credit, but it is not of interest to me and certainly doesn’t make it incumbent upon me to do the same. No one made you register under your own name, and nothing requires me to supply that information either. If someone chose, they could easily take one of your images, your name, and post under your guise saying anything they please, anywhere they like – being in that position is not something that interests me. What should matter to you is that I am a long-time Globe resident and a registered voter… not whether I am a potential customer or my position in the community. I will thank you, Mr. Moss, for the single source which you have chosen to provide, but I am thoroughly disappointed that you are either unable or unwilling to publicly provide a complete list of your resources. Despite your continued insistence, the ‘notebook’ that I read did not contain a bibliography so that I could refer to what you excerpted in its’ original context, much less any indication of permission given to reprint. As an individual, I don’t believe you speak for me as a citizen, and the manner in which you treat people is certainly something that I would not support under any means. As a resident, I am embarrassed by the behavior of Mr. Moss in his exchange with others and myself in this thread – people have asked questions of him, not hurled accusations. No answers have been forthcoming. I appreciate the opportunity provided to ask, nonetheless, and will continue to discuss the matter with others and make up my own mind.

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